Spotting
 Timeline
 Travel Tip
 Trip
 Race
 Social
 Greeting
 Poll
 Img
 PNR
 Pic
 Blog
 News
 Conf TL
 RF Club
 Convention
 Monitor
 Topic
 #
 Rating
 Correct
 Wrong
 Stamp
 PNR Ref
 PNR Req
 Blank PNRs
 HJ
 Vote
 Pred
 @
 FM Alert
 FM Approval
 Pvt

RailCal app

site support

हमसे सीखे कोई जीने का सलीका। सफर कैसा भी हो, मौज़ उडाये जाते हैं।। - Amir

Search Forum
<<prev entry    next entry>>
Blog Entry# 1947761
Posted: Jul 31 2016 (21:16)

35 Responses
Last Response: Aug 03 2016 (22:28)
3 Followers
General Travel
9511 views
1

Jul 31 2016 (21:16)  
 
tapankgh
tapankgh   37 blog posts
Entry# 1947761              
Gatiman Express (Nizamuddin / Agra Cant) is being hauled by Ghaziabad WAP5 locomotive. Why WAP7 which is more powerful is not used here?
Translate to English
Translate to Hindi

34 Posts

2125 views
1

Aug 01 2016 (13:25)
indian railways   7174 blog posts
Re# 1947761-35              
Yes. But only in the higher speed ranges. Its TE drops to zero only at around 180 km/h.
Note : These TE ratings are the absolute values. WAP7 loco carries 45 tons more than WAP5 regardless of rake formation and its rolling resistance is considerably higher. So, a WAP7 loco literally carries an extra coach when compared to a WAP5 loco.
Translate to English
Translate to Hindi

1956 views
1

Aug 01 2016 (14:06)
indian railways   7174 blog posts
Re# 1947761-36              

2239 views
3

Aug 01 2016 (14:12)
Ben_Kenobi~
Ben_Kenobi~   4222 blog posts
Re# 1947761-37              
yep, totally related to electric machines and electric drives ;)
when you go for v/f control, your motor has 3 'zones' of operation: Constant Torque region, Constant Power region and High speed region.
in Both P7 and P5's graph you'll see a flat region in the beginning. this is constant torque region, where we maintain v/f ratio constant, which means torque is also constant. As you must have guesses, as speed increases, frequency of rotation also increases and hence to keep v/f ration constant you have to increase input voltage to motor. However
...
more...
you can't keep on doing this for a long time as every motor has winding with insulation, which can tolerate an electric potential up to certain level only. once that is reached (2180 V, for both locos ) you can only increase frequency but not Voltage. this is the non linear dropping region you see, where torque drops as v/f ratio falls. Eventually though you also reach a point where you can't even increase frequency and you go for field weakening. that is the last, sharp drop region where troque eventually drops to zero. for P5, the point of 3rd region arrives later than that of P7, as its RPM is higher, hence you get to play in the higher torque region for longer time than P7 (160.3 Hz for P5, compared to 132 Hz for P7)
PS: I assume you know about v/f, without which my answer will read like Greek to you. The assumption is based on solid grounds though, i know you are well read, curious person so its unlikely you aren't aware of v/f control :P
Image source: click here

Translate to English
Translate to Hindi

1934 views
3

Aug 02 2016 (00:17)
TheMadrasMail~
TheMadrasMail~   6349 blog posts
Re# 1947761-38              
One reason is the space constraints due to the new transformer, as mentioned in the other blogs. This was a problem at that time, because, even though transformer taps were provided, a converter still had to be installed in the locomotive to be able to connect to the transformer and supply the power to the rakes. Usually, the transformer tap+ converter combo is decided based on the maximum rake length ( i.e., maximum power drawn by the rake) that the loco has to handle. Since the passenger trains in India are usually much longer than their European counterparts, the original design was not sufficient to power the longer Indian rakes, and an upgrade was required. This was easy in the WAP7 as it was a longer loco than the WAP5 and had enough space.
...
more...
Another reason is that IR took a lot of time to adjust to the 3 phasers and the LHB rakes. Initial trial runs of the LHB coaches with the Lucknow Shatabdi didn't go well, with a lot of jerks and ride quality issues. While this was going on, the P5 was struggling on many routes due to lack of track maintenance which was leading to a lot of gear box failures. At the same time, the WAP7 was suffering from heating and brake issues, while the engineers were struggling to optimize it to have better acceleration than the WAP5. With such critical problems in their hands, they didn't pay much attention to HOG ( Though why they didn't do it at that time for WAP4 is a total mystery !! ).
The funny thing is that HOG was a regular feature during the steam loco era, and now almost 40 years after the steam era, we are still trying to re-implement it!!

Translate to English
Translate to Hindi

1971 views
1

Aug 03 2016 (22:28)
Arnab_K~
Arnab_K~   9161 blog posts
Re# 1947761-39              
Understood sir, Electrical Engineering is my Mother subject!
Translate to English
Translate to Hindi
Scroll to Top
Scroll to Bottom
Go to Desktop site
Important Note: This website NEVER solicits for Money or Donations. Please beware of anyone requesting/demanding money on behalf of IRI. Thanks.
Disclaimer: This website has NO affiliation with the Government-run site of Indian Railways. This site does NOT claim 100% accuracy of fast-changing Rail Information. YOU are responsible for independently confirming the validity of information through other sources.
India Rail Info Privacy Policy